The citizens of New Eden are no strangers to controversy, and the latest one is pretty compelling as it has to do with the chairperson of the community’s representing body, the CSM. An interesting chatlog surfaced recently showing the CSM Chairman Jade Constantine having a verbal sparring match with some folks ingame. It’s an interesting look at the person who the majority voted in, that’s for sure.
Click here for the full log, hosted here in case someone pulls it from EVE Files.
17 thoughts on “Controversial CSM-related Chat Log”
I don’t know Jade and didn’t vote for him, but I don’t see a whole lot of anything in the posted chat log that is much different from what I see in private channels every day…except for the relative celebrity of the individuals doing the talking.
Why exactly is this log controversial? Because Jade smacked so hard on Verone? Hell, I love Verone and what he stands for…but every “famous” person in EVE gets smacked. Because Jade smacked about his fellow CSM members’ support of 0.0 power blocks? Well…it’s politics, so no surprise there. Because Jade acts like a jerk? Well…I heard at least one interview with him, have seen his forum posts (and even read some)…didn’t vote for him. ‘Nuff said. Jade’s personality is no secret. Personally, I believe folks like that can be effective at rattling cages and forcing action, so I tend to think they are good for group processes, even if they are unpopular and unpleasant.
So I’m still left wondering what I missed regarding “controversial” … being the Empire-focused, EVE politics noob that I am. What exactly is the larger EVE community supposed to take away from this post about Jade and his role in the CSM?
The problem is his behaviour. CSM’s, as representatives of the community, are expected to behave. Jade hasn’t done so.
The CSM PDF says this:
“Representatives are not only expected
to uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to,
but should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow. ”
The document says that CSM has to define the behavioural standard for everybody to follow. If everybody were to be liked Jade, geez.
That description of expectations is a vague leaving a lot open to interpretation. It doesn’t define performance objectives that can be clearly judged as having been met or not. Has the CSM defined more specific behavioral standards yet? Are violations enforceable within the CSM itself?
Out of curiosity…do I recall correctly that the Chair position is a default assignment based on # of popular votes received? It would seem to make more sense for the Chair to be a position elected by the the CSM representatives themselves, since the opinion of the masses is not necessarily an informed indication of who would be a good leader within the dynamic of any particular group of CSM members. Seems like only those members could make such a decision amongst themselves.
BTW, I admire all the CSM members for being willing to step up to the plate and take on what must be a huge obligation on behalf of the interests of the EVE community. I can’t imagine doing it myself.
I agree. It’s extremely vague, so it’s indeed something that is undefined. But I think it’s clear that the behaviour shown in that log is quite poor. I certainly would not expect that from a CSM member.
But we can’t enforce it by any means. The most we could do is to try and have him removed as chair. The only way to enforce anything, is if he breaks the EULA/TOS.
The chair position is the person with the most votes. We had a vote at the Iceland meetings, after talking to Xhagen. We were allowed to call for a vote for a new chairman, should the majority agree to that. But everybody agreed for Jade to stay as chair. I can’t say why others voted for Jade, but I honestly expected he would behave after one of the larger failthreads that happened when he muted Inanna from a meeting.
So in theory, we could elect our own chairman. But I frankly don’t like the chairman title. So I’m planning for raising an issue to replace the chair with another title, although it will be the same role(More or less) it will NOT be the head of the council, i.e he doesn’t represent the council.
It was to be expected with Jade, that person has created so much drama in the past. It’s totally the wrong person for a chairman.
Ah well, I’m kind of enjoying reading this sort of thing.
Thanks for the discussion, LaVista…Rarely can a leopard changes its spots, as they say. I wonder how Jade would fare today if the CSM took a vote to elect a new Chair. Who knows…he could win again…I’m sure there are political forces at work here which are way over my head, and blessedly so. But it does appear the Council has its work cut out for it in any case.
Tempest, teapot. I chewed through the log, saw Jade being flamed repeatedly by someone that wouldn’t give any proof, just endless insulting accusations, and Jade not tolerating it.
Could Jade have been more polite? Sure. On the other hand, given the provocation (and I inferred from the log that this is nothing new, just something Jade has to endure repeatedly) I don’t doubt that I would have been blunt and rude in response. Probably more so.
So LaVista – do we get to see logs of every private channel and local exchange from CSM members in order to determine if they are ‘behaving properly’? It’s one thing to accept that somebody is blunt or prone to giving somebody a piece of their mind – but you’re falling HARD for the troll when you take up that line of argument.
Frankly, LaVista, I expect CSM reps to not perpetuate time and bandwidth-wasting discussions like this one. Not everything in this universe is deserving of commentary and you’re playing right into the hands of more masterful politicians when you get distracted by this nonsense.
And for shame Winterblink, for trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Axe-grind much?
Actually, I have no axe to grind. And before you hold a previous comic about Jade as evidence to this, it was tongue-in-cheek humor about the length of his posts on the forum, and has nothing to do with CSM-related business.
At any rate, regarding this post I brought it to peoples’ attention since it’s worthwhile knowing what kind of person they’re voting in for CSM. If you question the controversial nature of this, I could direct you to the thread on EO’s GD forum about it but it’s been deleted (note: not just locked) by a moderator.
Pretty sure the reason wasn’t that it was not controversial enough for the forums. Feel free to use EVE Search to dig it up if you like.
When you say “what kind of person” – what kind of person do you think this chatlog reveals? Cause I agree with the above posters who said this is less than noteworthy. I mean, are you personally offended by anything said in there? I’d be surprised at your sensitivity if so.
Your attempt to put words in my mouth is amusing. I’m afraid that’s a game I won’t be baited into playing. 🙂
Not that I don’t appreciate counterarguments, if I didn’t want them I’d a) not post the blog in the first place or b) delete them.
Well, don’t you think the phrase “I brought it to peoples’ attention since it’s worthwhile knowing what kind of person they’re voting in for CSM.” begs the question of what you mean by that? Clearly there’s something within those logs that, in your opinion, reveals something about Jade. What was it?
I just think it’s a bit journalistically dishonest to not back up a statement like that with an actual argument.
I mean, I did find the chatlog entertaining, but you’re specifically implying that it’s controversial and damaging to Jade’s character, as well as of political import. But there’s a difference between celebrity tabloid entertainment and journalism. So it’s one thing if you want to repost it for laughs, but to imply that there’s some political significance to it is missing the mark don’t you think?
Hmmm. Well I must admit I voted for Lavista Vista, as i enjoy his podcast etc. As for Jade, well he is how he is. I give people quite a bit of rope before I deem to hang them up , and while I really take Lavista comments to heart I don’t know enough to blast Jade. Yes I know his past, yes I know he can be obnoxious, if I thought for one minute he wasn’t after the best interests of EvE I’d harpoon him, from what I can tell he is trying to do what he thinks is right.
In the spirit of ongoing discussion, I figured I’d pose a hypothetical point with regards to the controversial nature of the chatlog and how it could relate to politics in EVE and the CSM.
As LaVista has pointed out, there’s a minimum — and very broadly defined — standard with regards to CSM behavior. In general elected CSM folk are encouraged to lead by a positive and constructive example. This is easier than it might sound, and I will leave that point to you to consider independent of this.
Now anyone who plays EVE is no stranger to smack being the order of the day in a lot of player interactions. The example Jade might be showing here is that this is perfectly fine, that it’s totally ok to make personal insults of others, people that you’re supposed to be representing as impartially as is humanly possible.
Representation is everything with the CSM, including the whole process — campaigning, election, and actual CSM work. The chatlog presents an inconsistency in how Jade represented himself during the campaign process, and in so doing reflects negatively on the CSM as a whole. Hence, rewinding time backwards and taking the blinders off, would this affect the way someone might have voted?
Again, this is of course a hypothetical retrodiction. 🙂
On the record, I don’t have a personal issue with Jade since he’s not done anything to me personally. He IS in the spotlight given his elevated position in the EVE community, thus should be open to the possibility of such analyses occurring. Similarly, I don’t mind it if such a thing happens to me, as it does here. I expect and encourage it. 🙂
I suppose I could have added “Possibly” to the start of the blog title and “?” to the end of it, but I assume a certain level of independent thinking will take place by those who might read this blog, and with that comes the assumption that people can make the decision that those items belong there or not for themselves.
Kelsin, aren’t you Jade Constantine the very same? 😛
Jade Constantine > we decced goons
Jade Constantine > ffs
Jade Constantine > least you could do is dec us
War dec didn’t last long
Jade Constantine > you gotta remember viper
Jade Constantine > that 0.0 “warefare” is generally for carebears and talentless blob merchants who can’t fight for toffee away from their jammers and bridges
Which he’d know… how??
In most forms of warfare, if you bring the bigger fleet you tend to win: only in Eve, you can cause the node to lag out so you lose because your side can’t warp in and your opponents keep the field.